Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

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Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Wed Feb 25, 2015 2:01 pm

Progression from my last thread below, I have now fitted an additional 1 m section of twinwall and the windkat and things looked to be working perfectly, but I came home the other day to be informed that the kitchen was “Smokey” and so the wife had turn off the aga as per my instructions.
Now, yet again it has happened when I am not there so I cannot confirm the full situation of if it had fully blown out or just “puffed” out and if left on would have been ok,or had gone out then oil still flowing/relighting onto hot burner, but there was definitely some black soot around the fire box door.

Anyway she did as I said and turned it off at the slightest smell of oil or smoke.

But these incidents are not activating the mechanical bulb fire valves as I assume they are too fast and short lived for the bulb to react?

So my plan is to go electronic!


I plan to use a failsafe shutting solenoid valve located after the BM oil control valve, controlled via a thermocouple temperature controller with the thermocouple located directly in the flame/shells.

My thought would be to set the trip point at X Deg C below “normal” flame on operation so if the wind blows back down the chimney/aga and blows out the aga, it will detect he flame out/temperature drop and turn off the oil before too much has chance to flow back onto a hot burner and re light incorrectly and filling the house with smoke.

Does this sound a reasonable plan?


viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2385
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby john on Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:55 pm

I dont think that would be a great scheme lingwood .
The problem is that the shell temperature varies greatly during normal running , so a bit of extra pull might put it out even when there is no need to.
One thing we did not cover --
Is it possible that a high draught in a chimney in an adjacent room is causing fumes to be pulled down.
This can happen if the adjacent room has a high stack, in comparison with that of the cooker and the connecting door is open.
if so the answer may be as simple as closing the door, :)
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:12 am

I have thought as well about the other chimneys, but dont they they are the issue?

The aga is in the main kitchen area and at the far end about 10m away is an open fire but it is not used and has a plug of rock wool just up the chimney and a vent cap ontop.

At the other side and round the corner a bit is the orginal aga loaction with a small vent in the chimney just to keep some air movment in.

In the ajoning room is a wood burnener again into the main chimney but doors where closed and stove was shut up.



My thoughts on the flame thermocouple... i take your point about the flabe variance , but currently it is running quite stable about 300 deg c. I was not sugesting a set point close to this, but more like <150 or less, but this would need to be proven.


I am still thinking that all the improvments i have done have greatly inproved the aga, and if I had been in attendance when it "puffed" out the other day and was able to see the flame, I would not have turned it off and if would have been fine?
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby john on Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:41 pm

Maybe next time get the good lady to bear with it until you get home to see what is going on.
I dont think a thermocouple and solenoid are the answer.
You clearly have a peculiar draught condition but you seem to have made great progress so far. maybe one more step????
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:04 pm

One more step? Any thoughts?

Ideally as said need to see it happen myself

I will think about the solenoid valve idea, but even if do go ahead will not be fitting until September/ October ( just before next time turned on after summer off)
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby john on Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:23 pm

As you say you need to see it yourself .
It may be that it is just a couple of puffs which could be resolved by opening a window briefly
Tell us if/when it happens again!
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:03 pm

Sunday midday is reporting 30pmh wind and I will be in so let's see
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:54 am

Well it blew out in early hours of this morning! Only a slight smokey/oil smell.

On checking it properley just now, I found that the fire valve had activated so guess it did its job?

I will re light and looks like it is as windy again monday mid day and lucky I am off so might see what is happening.
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:30 pm

I have been playing around this morning and think you might be on to something with the other chimneys pulling down the aga.

In the adjoining room which has a wood burner in, if I am in that room and hold a bit of tissue paper up against the door gap it is showing air movement away from the kitchen with aga in i.e towards the room with the wood burner.

There is another door in this room and is is also showing a slight pull into this room so does look like the wood burner is pulling too well? Or more than AGA chimney

So I am assuming that even though the stove has doors shut it is still allowing air leakage

A couple of plans

1 temporally seal off the stove and see effect? Now wid has dropped pull is negligible but now have fire on and draw is back

2 do I lower back down the flue draft break on the AGA to ensure a more positive draw from the aga to try and over come any pull from the rest of the house ?

I could try and fit a draft excluder around this double doors between kitchen and sitting room to further reduce pull.

I am also going to temporally seal off the old AGA chimney vent
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby john on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:02 pm

A closed stove should not cause a problem .
An open fire might!
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:09 pm

Stove is not the issue! I sealed it off today with plastic sheet and still the draught was there!

Smoke test around sealed off open fire showed no movement.

I think the air blowing is general house leakage, remembering we have two cooker hood extractors in kitchen, above AGA and next to induction hob.

Think I am just back to accepting that it need to be turned off in high winds .
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:43 pm

And then I just think do I just ditch the flue and go for a power flue? Or is that just another can of worms?
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby john on Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:56 pm

Extractors bring in a whole new realm of problems >
Describe please ! :?
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:51 pm

Found somthing strange today on re setting up the AGA!

Just as a precaution I took out the burner to give it a clean and check etc. All clean and no blockages, even inner burner pool under the lid was spotless .

But on re assembly, with wicks removed, I turned on oil and left it for nearly 1 HR but the oil bairly covered the base.

I ended up raising the oil control depth to increase the depth of the oil in the burner to the current depth.

All lit and up to temperature now.

Wind picked up just now so will see tomorrow
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Re: Aga flame detection oil solenoid shut off valve

Postby lingwood on Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:09 am

Due to building works the AGA was not on in 2016, but was finally re light about 2 months ago.

In summer I added a further 1m section to the chimney, which is now rivaling Emley Moor Tower as one of the UK's tallest free standing chimneys. Don't ask how I got it up there! :shock: :D Standing now at 4m from exit building plus 0.5m of the windkat.

Thus far we have survived 2 "storms" with no issues.

I think the problems of the aga going out where possibly two fold, 1, turbulent air caused by the low chimney and bouncing off main house, and 2, main house chimney creating more negative pressure in the house and in effect "sucking" the flame out from the aga.

Fingers crossed this is now fixed!!
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